Mora Interview

This is a long, in-depth interview with Miori Kuniyoshi, Yukiko Okada's director and the first female director at Pony Canyon. This interview took place in 2015, and was in-part to advertise the newly released high quality ("Hi-Res") releases. Mora is a music distribution service owned by Sony and this interview was part of a `Memories of Legend` series of articles published on their website.

I have translated the article as best as I can but given its length, and given the fact I'm not as knowledgable about music as the great Miori Kuniyoshi, there are likely some small errors here and there. You can find the original text here

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- It’s well-known that Yukiko Okada’s releases were produced by the famous Yuuzou Watanabe of Pony Canyon (at the time known as Canyon Records.) What was the process that you became Okada-san’s director?

Kuniyoshi: When I entered Canyon, I was told “Study under Yuuzou-san,” so I was placed with him while he produced Chiemi Hori-chan’s releases. I was then told that I could learn a lot from the musician Ami Ozaki, so I ended up in charge of both artists. Afterwards, I was told to use what I’d learned with a girl named Yukiko Okada, and that led to me becoming her director.

- What was your impression of her when you first met her?

Kuniyoshi: I thought she was a normal cute teenager at first, but we went shopping together and went to a cafe, and when she talked I realised that she was a very intelligent girl. She had good instincts, and seemed to absorb everything I said to her. That made me realise she was such an interesting girl.

- Okada-san’s early period is heavily associated with Mariya Takeuchi-san’s compositions. Was that Yuuzou Watanabe’s choice?

Kuniyoshi: Good question. When we were deciding what kind of singer she should be marketed as, we thought about how she was very refined and intellectual compared to other idols. Yuuzou-san said “How about the image of a young girl living along the Yamanote Line who goes to university baseball matches?” Everyone agreed “That might work perfectly” and that led to the thought of “Mariya Takeuchi fits that concept exactly!” That’s how Mariya-san’s name came up, and when we asked her, she accepted.

- The booklet in Okurimono III said that Yuuzou-san wrote a handwritten letter to Mariya-san asking for a composition. However, there’s a rumour among some fans that Mariya-san turned down the request, so Okada-san personally went to meet her which made Mariya-san change her mind.

Kuniyoshi: I’ve also heard this. As far as I know, it’s not true. (laughs)

- So the story of the fated meeting was fake all along. There must be fans who believed that story for years, so it’s good we set the record straight.

Kuniyoshi: Very true, haha. Yukiko-chan was really happy when Mariya-san agreed to write her debut song. Mariya-san came to the studio on the day of recording and sang the chorus to us.

- What was it like at the recording?

Kuniyoshi: Even though we’d picked Mariya-san for the composition, the staff hadn’t fully grasped Yukiko Okada’s potential yet, so we began recording by having her sing various different peoples’ compositions and arrangements and seeing what fit. Mariya-san wrote a number of songs, so we recorded all of them at the same time and compared them. We wanted a slightly melancholic, minor key song for the debut single, which is why we picked First Date. We wanted her to be different from the normal happy-go-lucky idols.

- The 1980s was the golden age of idols, yet if you listen to Okada-san, you can clearly feel the difference from other idol songs.

Kuniyoshi: That’s right. I think the biggest reason is she took singing very seriously. It didn’t matter if the chorus was loud or there an extravagant instrumental break, she would never let herself be drowned out by the rest of the music. It’s one of the reasons her music sound so good.

- What are your thoughts after hearing the new Hi-Res tracks?

Kuniyoshi: I’m really happy we’re in an era where we can hear exactly how the music sounded in the studio. Before, we could convey only 20% of what we wanted to create, but now we can finally convey 100%. On a normal CD, you can hear the vocals, the drums and the other main instruments but in this new version, you can hear the intricacies of the keyboard and the percussion. It brings out the colour of the music, and you can hear the spaces between the sounds - the groove, the atmosphere, the world it’s trying to create. To me, those are real part of music. The warm sounds you can’t express in a CD, you can feel them in the Hi-Res version.

- The original recording were done via multi-track analog. Do you think the new version brings out the strengths of analog?

Kuniyoshi: I do. Unlike digital recordings, analog recordings will pick up more background noise. The sound has a harsher feel on the CD compared to the vinyl release, so for the mastering of the Hi-Res version, we’ve raised the volume of the medium pitches and returned the sound to its original state. I think it brings out the strengths of analog.

- What do you think is the most distinctive part of the Yukiko Okada Sound?

Kuniyoshi: She might not have mastered everything at the time of the debut single, but once she’d finished recording the first album, she’d gained the expressiveness to make any song her own. It didn’t matter how technical a performer or arranger you paired her with, she wouldn’t be drowned out. Her singing voice was really elegant and I wanted to make an album that would really bring out that refined quality. I gave it a lot of thought, and decided Masataka Matsutouya’s sound was the best match, so I asked him to arrange the second album. With him, I was confident we could create Yukiko Okada’s world.

- You helped out in the new mastering. Did this lead to any new discoveries?

Kuniyoshi: The first song on Cinderella, Sayonara Natsuyasumi, was actually a candidate for debut single and to ensure the song stood out when it played on radio or TV, we used a compressor to make the opening sound flashy. But we used it too much, it was to the point where it was drowning out the music. It sounded good on the record and the CD, but the sound was jarring on the Hi-Res version. It’s not as though we could decompress the music, so we tweaked it again and again until we decided it was good enough. Wouldn’t it be sad if the Hi-Res version on the very first song of the very first album sounded crushed?

- It would for sure make you do a double-take when you’re expecting high quality music. From Mariya Takeuchi to Masataka Matsutouya, many famous musicians have worked for Okada-san. I’d be interested if you had any anecdotes about how this came about.

Kuniyoshi: What first comes to mind is Mori no Fairy from the second album Fairy, which I entrusted to Tetsurou Kashibuchi-san.

- That reminds me – wasn’t it was you, Kuniyoshi-san, who selected members of the Moonriders such as Kashibuchi for Okada-san’s compositions?

Kuniyoshi: That’s right. I was discussing the matter with Yuuzou-san, and suggested inviting members of the Moonriders, thinking Kashibuchi-san in particular would be a great fit. Ryoumei Shirai’s cheerful and fun compositions were a perfect match for Chiemi Hori but when it came to Yukiko Okada, Kashibuchi-san’s graceful and elegant compositions were perfect. I’m glad I hired him, but at the time I wasn’t sure if he was a good choice.

- What do you mean by that?

I was worried that he would write a song that was too difficult for her. But the song I got back was perfect for an idol, and it perfectly encapsulated Kashibuchi’s songwriting style as well. Once Matsutouya-san arranged it and gave it a fuller sound, I thought “this is it!” and was really glad I’d hired him. Thankfully, Yukiko-chan was able to grasp the song instantly, and sang it with ease.

- Kashibuchi arranged all the songs on Venus Tanjou, yes?

Kuniyoshi: The songs he wrote for the Moonriders weren’t any of the catchy ones, and were mostly only popular with hardcore fans. So when I asked him, his reaction was “me, really?” Haha. But in the end, he matched Yukiko-chan perfectly.

- I really like her 7^th single, Love Fair. That was one of Kashibuchi’s songs.

It was her producer from Sun Music, Sugimura-san, who decided to release it as a single. I hired Kashibuchi-san on the basis of making a great album song, so I was really surprised it was chosen as a single but it also made me extremely happy. By putting Love Fair out, Yukiko-chan was able to walk a different path from other idols, so I think it all worked out very well.

- I remember the falsetto was very unusual for the time, and it left a big impact on me. Was it always the intention to start the song that way?

Kuniyoshi: Yes, the falsetto was there from the start. That part sounds particularly good in the Hi-Res version. That song sounded amazing even from the demo tape, and Matsutouya-san’s arrangement made it even better. I remember at the time I was so shocked, thinking “How did he make it sound so good?” Yukiko-chan’s slightly nasally voice really adds to it, right? The mid-tones sounds come out quite well in the Hi-Res version, they’ve got a nice, full sound.

- In the mid-80s, it was becoming more common for New Music singer-songwriters to create songs for idols, but Okada-san had songs by artists from the Japanese New Wave scene too. I’ve always found that quite interesting.

Kuniyoshi: Me, Yuuzou-san and Kuranaka-san (Director of Venus Tanjou) all loved music, and our tastes were quite niche too. Since we all happened to be on the production team, we wanted to use the opportunity to connect disparate people and disparate worlds. As director, I really wanted to give 100% of my effort to the project. It was so much fun, to the point it almost felt wrong to be receiving a paycheck. First class musicians would defy our expectations in a good way, and hearing the songs performed would take me aback every time. Of course, it was Yukiko-chan’s singing and our work that truly brought out their talents, and is what gave us the joy of creating new music. That reminds me, on the third album Juugatsu no Ningyo, the first and tenth song, Sweet Planet and Mizuiro Princess – Mizu no Sei –, are both Tetsuya Komuro compositions. Those songs are the first time he was credited as songwriter. Komuro-san was still an unknown musician at the time, and they were on a demo tape of songs he was trying to sell.

- So it was one of those promotional demo tapes that often get sent to record companies. I would be very interested in hearing more about how Komuro-san got involved. TM Network debuted in 1986, one year after Juugatsu no Ningyo was released. His first hit song, Misato Watanabe's My Revolution was the same year. You were ahead of the curve discovering him.

Kuniyoshi: I always thought it was an important part of the job of director to identify people with growth potential. When I heard Komuro-san’s demo tape I felt he was really talented. His music had a magical quality and already sounded finished, so I put it in Matsutouya-san’s post box.

- You dropped it in his post box directly? I suppose it was an era before e-mail and motorbike courier.

Kuniyoshi: Very true (laughs.) We had a very busy schedule, bringing out a new single every three months and a new album every six months. It felt like everyone, us included, was running around and I was always in the car or taxi delivering something or other. The day after I sent Matsutouya-san that demo tape, he came into the studio and said “That demo tape was interesting. Who made it?”

- Especially with Mizuiro Princess – Mizu no Sei -, you can hear what’s referred to as the Komuro Sound, and it’s already fully formed even at this early stage.

Kuniyoshi: I know, right? Yukiko-chan tried really hard on this song, but there’s a part of me that thinks it’s not perfect. I don’t know if we were able to bring out the song’s full appeal in the end. Komuro-san’s demo tape was really good, I wish we could have released it as-is!

- Komuro-san’s songwriting is familiar by now, but at the time it sounded extremely fresh.

Kuniyoshi: We were really troubled by what lyrics to put down. The lyricist was apparently at a complete loss.

- One of the characteristics of the albums is how each is centered around a specific concept. Juunigatsu no Ningyo is water, while Venus Tanjou is space. Where did that idea come from?

Kuniyoshi: It came from our taste for western music. An album made up of ten rejected singles felt sad to me. Even if each individual song is good, there’s something special if the totality of the album, the artwork included, creates its own narrative.

- Were the singles created with the theme of the album in mind?

Kuniyoshi: Good question. Her debut songs were made with the intention of being pushed as singles, but from then on, every single was selected from songs created for the album.

- I touched on this earlier, but her songs have a unique quality compared to other popular idol songs of the time. I guess now I know why. She was so popular as an idol, yet her only song to enter the top 3 in the charts was her last one, Kuchibiru Network, which made it to No. 1.

Kuniyoshi: In terms of the balance between commercial and artistic ambitions, I think we were more weighed towards trying to create good art. That’s why her music is still being re-released in different formats, even decades later. Even at the time, we believed if we could create good art, we would be leaving something behind for the future. We never pressured ourselves into creating music with the mindset of “We reached #7, so next time let’s aim for #1”

- What did Okada-san think of the production team’s stance?

Kuniyoshi: We never talked about chart positions with her so I can’t say for sure, but given her abilities in drawing and writing, I semse she always wanted to be closer to an artist than an idol, so I think she was happy with what the production staff was doing.

- What would you say is the appeal behind Yukiko Okada, and what would you say makes her great?

She was a quick learner, and she instinctively understood how we wanted her to sing, and what music we were trying to make. For the staff she was a joy to work with, because she would perfectly recreate the concept behind each track. To put it simply, she knew how to bring our music to life. We never ordered her to do this or take that lesson. We’d make suggestions, and leave it up to her to decide how to learn. She was a very serious girl. We wanted her to have a long career as a singer, so we thought it was a good idea for her to learn and absorb lots of different things. She never showed any minus points, and that made me feel sorry for her. There was no recording schedule, so we might be told to record four songs in three hours. I thought it was impossible, but with her own strength she would make it possible. When there was work scheduled after recording, she’d always confirm if there was a hard deadline, and make sure to finish on time. She checked the sales figures of her own records too, which at the time I saw as quite astonishing, but looking back I realise how hard it must have been on her.

- Finally, could I ask for your thoughts on the Hi-Res streaming release and the high quality CD release, thirty years after Yukiko Okada passed away.

Kuniyoshi: Not only do we have the benefits of free streaming, we now have the Hi-Res version with the great orchestration, great arrangement, and great singing. There’s benefits to both, but I really want young people to give the Hi-Res versions a try for the fullest enjoyment of her music. I worry that if people listen via streaming, they might have a lower opinion of the music, or dislike it. I want people to hear the sounds of the talented musicians and arrangers who worked on the original analog recordings. I hope young people today continue that spirit as they create their own music, and leave behind music that might be listened to 30 years later. I hope I've made my case as to why the Hi-Res versions are important for the sake of carefully composed music (laughs.)

- If Yuuzou Watanabe and of course Yukiko Okada were still alive today, would they be happy to hear this new release?

Kuniyoshi: I think they’d be really glad. This music we created is our treasure. We all strongly felt that we wanted to make something good. Everyone connected to Yukiko Okada, every musician, every member of staff, every fan, I think would be really happy to see that philosophy carried through even now.